Brigrove posted a comment on Tuesday 10th March 2009 7:25am for Chapter Fourteen - Harry and the Wizengamot

Nicely constructed chapter. And I loved the true-Brit explanation of how this pureblood nonsense happened. Blame the French! Of course!

GryffindorDragon posted a comment on Thursday 26th February 2009 7:46am for Chapter Fourteen - Harry and the Wizengamot

Why would Katie be any different than Angelina, Olvier, Marcus, etc. who played (and captained) in the NEWT year? That's just odd, even with her being Head Girl (Wasn't Harry's Dad both a Quidditch star and Head Boy?). Just because you wanted to introduce something unique and have Ginny captain (by the way, it's her OWL year, shouldn't she bow out?).
The politics is interesting, but appears quite AU to me. I find it disturbing that Fudge could in anyway remain minister after the fiasco at the end of 5th year. Even more disturbing is the notion that the Prophet could think to get away with such blatant lies. As bad as government accountability is in JKR's version, it is even worse here.
I've made comment elsewhere about the number of students; I'll just remind that the Harry's dormitory is labeled 5th Years, making it the sole one, so there's only 5 male Gryffindors in Harry's year; if that's an accurate average, then there's no where near 1000 (5 x 2 x 7 x 4 = 280)

dennisud posted a comment on Sunday 22nd February 2009 5:51am for Chapter Fourteen - Harry and the Wizengamot

Why is Luna's letter put so out of place within Harry's talk with Mr.Smith?

Just a question!

Darth Voldie posted a comment on Friday 2nd May 2008 5:58am for Chapter Fourteen - Harry and the Wizengamot

In regard to your question:

It doesn't work. The facts that Rowling has given us don't fit. Regardless of how you look at it, the numbers just don't work out in any sensible way for one simple reason: Rowling couldn't be bothered to do some very simple math and that's why there are a number of glaring continuity errors, especially were numbers are concerned.

So you needn't worry about this problem; since JKR messed up, you as a fanfic author have the right to change the facts to make them fit and to adjust them to the needs of your fic.

Jim_xinu posted a comment on Monday 10th March 2008 3:03pm for Chapter Fourteen - Harry and the Wizengamot

Great chapter, thanks for sharing it with us.

David305 posted a comment on Thursday 3rd January 2008 1:55pm for Chapter Fourteen - Harry and the Wizengamot

Sorry to post twice on the same subject, but this hadn't occurred to me before, and it seems even more conclusive.

In a school of 1000 students, 1/7th would be 143 students. (Actually, that's being conservative, because with dropouts after OWLs, there would be many fewer 6th and 7th years, and therefore a lot more first years.)
But let's say, being overly cautious, that there are only 143/1000 first years. And let's say, now being overly generous, that they could all be sorted in a minute each. That's nearly TWO AND A HALF HOURS OF SORTING!

You'll recall that the Express always arrives at Hogwarts after dusk. The World Clock gives sunset for Edinburgh on Sept. 1 at 8:06 pm BST. (That was how we guessed in Book 1 that Hogwarts had to be in Scotland. A nine-hour trip from London could not have ended south of Scotland, even with a very slow train.)
So if they arrive no earlier than 8:06, and then they still have to cross the lake, and if lucky and nimble they get to the sorting at 8:30, and -- at top possible speed -- take two and a half more hours to be sorted, the kids won't even start to eat till 11 pm! After nothing more than a few bits of candy off the trolley to hold them all day since breakfast? They'd be fainting right and left.
But with just 40 kids, they'd be done with the sorting by 9:30. That's still late for 11-year-olds to be eating dinner, but not as impossible.
Indeed, if there were really 1000 kids, and thus at least 143 first years to sort, they'd actually have to send the Express from London at 9 am instead of 11, just to let the kids have some kind of reasonable bedtime -- or else not do the sorting at the opening feast.
The simple logistics therefore make JK("Hopeless at Maths")R WRONG about the possible number of students.
Ipso Fatso. (grin) Wizards aren't the only ones who don't think things through logically!
Peace and love,
David

David305 posted a comment on Monday 31st December 2007 10:57am for Chapter Fourteen - Harry and the Wizengamot

Still very much enjoying your original and intelligent story. Sorry to be answering this so late, but I only discovered the story lately.

I am a definite fan of the HP stories and JKR's clever story-telling. That said, I also often find myself irritated and frustrated by her flaws and failings (though I forgive her for them, much as Harry learns to forgive Dumbledore for his).

Though her areas of interest are broad, JKR clearly makes no effort to research things she isn't interested in. Her blanket excuse is that she is "Hopeless at maths." This is reflected in her disinterest at co-ordinating the calendar, her giving Flint two 7th years (and brushing it off by saying he failed his first one and had to repeat it -- as though someone that academically hopeless would have still been enrolled after doubtless pitiful showings on his OWLs!) and others. (Indeed, some compulsively fact-checking fans have given the title "Flints" to obvious gaffes and inconsistencies in canon.)

JKR's comment of a thousand students was, if I recall correctly, just made in an interview -- not part of canon. The listing of students, however, IS part of canon, and that would seem to hold more sway.
Starting from the other end, the only evidence we can actually draw from of students per sex per year per house shows 3-5. (In Harry's year, there are 5 boys and 3 girls in Gryffindor.) To be generous and say 5 average, that means
10 per year X
7 years
______
70 per house; X
4 houses
______
280 students.

While the films are not canon, they did need JKR's approval; and the population per house table seems much more like 70 than 250 each.
And the head table is populated by Snape, McGonagall, Sprout, etc. -- and not by a legion of supporting or "associate" professors, as would be needed in a 1000-student school.
More telling, and in canon itself, McGonagall is always THE Transfiguration teacher, and Snape is THE potions teacher -- not merely one of them.

I have no objection to any fanfic author's decision to use this or other dubious JKR interview excerpts as bases for their story, even though I believe that JKR is demonstrably wrong. But -- you asked! Nevertheless, you succeed in making it fit and seem rational, which is all we can ask. Keep it up! Cheers,
David

Christopher Estep posted a comment on Wednesday 13th June 2007 8:19pm for Chapter Fourteen - Harry and the Wizengamot

On the class structure: Consider twenty students per year per house (eighty students total) for Hogwarts. That would be a total (all years) of (at best) five-hundred sisty (assuming no failouts, and all students take their NEWTs). However, it is known that some courses are *required* or core, courses (Transfiguration, Charms, Potions, and Defense); the remaining courses are electives (Astronomy, Divination, Care of Magical Creatures, History of Magic, Muggle Studies, the post-OWL Apparation course for sixth-years and any seventh-year that failed or didn't take it in sixth-year, etc.). While Herbology is an elective, it is a useful part of a core course (Potions) and both Transfiguration and Charms are useful in terms of Defense (all three are core courses). While in all years up to fifth (OWL) year, each course is forty minutes; each post-OWL core course is twice as long (one hour and twenty minutes). Some electives (Apparation, for example) are *only* taught post-OWL, and only for one year; while others (Ancient Runes and Arithmancy) require an Acceptable on the OWL (which is also an elective; note that Harry took Astronomy and Divination pre-OWL, instead of Arithmancy or Ancient Runes, while Hermione did the reverse). Core-course post-OWL courses, however, require a minimum of Exceeds Expectations on the OWL exam (Severus Snape goes beyond that, requiring an Outstanding on the Potions OWL before being accepted into the post-OWL Potions course). These heightened requirements result in much-smaller class sizes in the post-OWL core courses due to students not meeting the minimum acceptable requirements (only Defense and Charms in Harry's year did not see a loss of half the students post-OWL vs. pre-OWL; that figure, naturally, is primarily due to the Defense Association, while Potions saw the greatest shrinkage, primarily due to the even higher requirements to enter the post-OWL course). In canon, the only reason Harry is even taking NEWT Potions is due to a change in the professor (Horace Slughorn hewed to the same Exceeds Expections OWL requirement of the other core courses); NEWT Defense has the highest enrollment (Defense, however, saw two records set on the OWLs; most Outstanding OWLs in any one year, and most failures; very much feast or famine, with the feasters consisting entirely of DA members), followed by NEWT Charms (again, even Flitwick gives credit to Harry's DA for the smaller failure rate on the Charms OWL) and Transfiguration (again, McGonagall credits the DA). To a large extent, the sixth-year course enrollment is, in fact, an aberration over a typical sixth-year grouping, with more students in the core courses overall (again, heavily weighted in favor of Defense and Charms, followed by Transfiguration; Potions, however, has the small class size typical of sixth-year); the *seventh* or NEWT year class sizes are doubtless more typical of Hogwarts pre-Harry. Lastly, we have no idea what Harry's post-OWL elective class load was in HBP; he may not have taken any electives (despite being eligible to take NEWT Astronomy and NEWT CoMC). (The only elective Ron took was Divination; however, he didn't take Potions. Hermione, on the other hand, took both Arithmancy and Ancient Runes in addition to all four core post-OWL courses; however, even Hermione took no other electives.) Further, with Hogwarts being a boarding school with no *day* students, the class *day* is, doubtless longer than that of a comprehensive non-boarding school.

Sim posted a comment on Friday 11th May 2007 9:51am for Chapter Fourteen - Harry and the Wizengamot

I'm not someone who reviews often, but this religion in the Potterverse thing has me wanting to jump on my soapbox, it seems. *amused smile*
I'll admit, at first I was annoyed when Remus started talking about James and Lily's faith. I have abandoned stories in the past when a fic has screamed off course into religious ravings after a good beginning. Most of the time I don't bother to leave a review, I just accept that I am not the intended audience and find another author.
...But as you can see, I haven't given up on this story*. I don't find that the inclusion of christian elements in your story over the top, or out of place. They push the plot along nicely, and are incorporated well. A few times I was initially annoyed at some of the references to the Christian Bible. Then I realised that I was pushing the blame for my ignorance to the wrong place, and opened a window so I could Google things as I went along. Now I've learnt something as well as being entertained by this fic.
Thankyou.

*As an aside, I find the parrallel writing of two stories with two different ships a very intresting concept. I've not seen it before, and before reading this, I wouldn't have thought it could work.

in-fanficauthors posted a comment on Sunday 22nd April 2007 1:01pm for Chapter Fourteen - Harry and the Wizengamot

Great story so far. Some of the politics drags on a bit, but other bits are pretty interesting.

I wonder if Harry could cause a stir by having his House Elves, or Gringotts, or perhaps even the Weasley twins cast his votes.

The Luna message in the middle of lunch was a bit of a nonsequitur, much like Luna or my spelling of nonsequitur.

Please continue.

old_crow posted a comment on Tuesday 17th April 2007 11:01am for Chapter Fourteen - Harry and the Wizengamot

Thanks for sharing a wonderful story so far. The backfill stories are much better than most and add a lot of flavor to your story.

I hope to see more of your story in the future.

Thanks again.

Old Crow

participium posted a comment on Thursday 5th April 2007 8:26am for Chapter Fourteen - Harry and the Wizengamot

Nice story, brilliant in fact. Original, well thought out. Beautiful work.

There is only one ting I see a problem with and that is Ginny as quidditch captain. She is not fit for the job.

She does not hold seniority. People will look to Harry and Ron for advice unless she is the most talented player which she is not.
Secondly, Ron will never listen to her. She is his younger sister, he has played longer then her (one match) and he knows more about quidditch
Thirdly, she has to find herself as a chaser. It would be the first time she played as chaser, it is not even known she is a good chaser at the moment. How can she lead if she has to find her own place? How can Mcgonnal give captaincy to someone who might not hold a place on the team?

Lang posted a comment on Tuesday 27th March 2007 10:33am for Chapter Fourteen - Harry and the Wizengamot

Good question about the students and teachers.

I don't think there's a thousand. It's a wee bit much. Maybe 500, 700 tops.

I can't remember if in Canon that there's a timetable handed out, but in some stories people have written that.

There definitely has to be more than one dorm for an age and gender. The numbers just wouldn't match otherwise.

Say there were 100 of each year. Class sizes would be about 20-30 students. Then a teacher would teach 20 students of every year on one day. So essentially a 7 hour day with an hour prep?

And then they do that 5 days a week so they'd get all 100 students of every year. Tada done! =D

Anaknisatanas posted a comment on Tuesday 27th March 2007 4:36am for Chapter Fourteen - Harry and the Wizengamot

I loved this update. It was great to see Harry at the Wizengamot and I always love politics but it seems they are hardly ever used. The information on the Three-Thirty-Three Families was very interesting. I also liked how Harry knew the stories of the Smith and Potter families from his helping Ollivander. Ollivander is such an interesting person, I'm a bit surprised that he isn't on the Wizengamot. Have you considered having him tutor Harry at all (he's sure to know plenty of useful things)? I also enjoyed Smith. I am wondering why Zach dislikes Harry so much, but perhaps Zach would be a person Harry could talk to about Wizengamot things, or even Millicent? I can't wait to see what happens when school starts up again and Harry starts teaching.

Deborahsu posted a comment on Monday 26th March 2007 11:36am for Chapter Fourteen - Harry and the Wizengamot

I am truly loving these parallel stories. Even though politics isn't my favorite topic to dwell in, this chapter fits and you covered it well, I think.

As far as the 1000 students vs. 6-10 per house per year ... I think maybe the school is designed to hold and teach 1000 students but does not currently have so many enrolled, possibly due to the war and less babies being born due to deaths of childbearing-age people, and those who have childen of the right age choosing to teach them at home or send them somewhere that seems safer. We don't really know how many are in years other than Harry's, either--it might be an unusually small class.

Logan_MacLeod posted a comment on Friday 23rd March 2007 3:32pm for Chapter Fourteen - Harry and the Wizengamot

you have got to update this story. I am hooked on it

mathiasgranger posted a comment on Friday 23rd March 2007 5:43am for Chapter Fourteen - Harry and the Wizengamot

Time to dabble in a bit of math shall we...

1000 students...12 offered courses with certain courses considered core courses through fifth year.

Charms
Potions
Transfiguration
History of Magic
Herbology
Astronomy
DADA

Electives starting third year
COMC
Divination
Ancient Runes
Arithmancy
Muggle Studies

1000 students/4 houses = roughly 250 students a house

250 students a house/ 7 years = 35-36 students a year in each house. This would be...a stretch based upon what we know of Harry's year alone but we'll assume bit players weren't mentioned in canon and tackle the feasibility issues for professors.

In canon there are discreprencies but I've always made the assumption that each class matches up two classes you've said charms class doesn't (lets assume it does because otherwise Flitwick would need a time turner)...this might not be dealt with in canon...but then again canon doesn't seem to support the volume JKR states it as. Simply stated Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff house would have to be loaded if this is to work at all based upon what we know. Based upon their respectve standings every year in the house cup...I find this scenario highly unlikely.

Lets assume for a moment we have 1000 students and each class has two houses per year up to the end of fifth year. Afterwards specialization is allowed and each class only offers one section and also allows for the many students that quit school after their high school equivalency in magic is completed. 6th and 7th year is University in a manner of speaking.

So:

5 years X 2 sections a year each = 10 classes
10 + 2 more sections one for each sixth and seventh year for core subject professors.

Each core professor has 12 sections to teach a week or 2.4 sections a day if they are all held once a week. Canon indicates some classes are doubles and some aren't but singles take less time so the schedule still accomodates this.

Elective professors only would have eight sections using this logic and this is even more manageable. Arithmancy and Ancient Runes seem to only be one section from what I've deduced so even less strain for these professors. Maybe they commute and this is why we never see these two professors in canon.

Students per class discussion...on this logic classes have up to 70-72 students in a class..not unheard of for a large lecture class at many universities..which act much as boarding schools.

It is a feasible scenario if you ignore the inconsistencies JKR heaps upon us.

I hope this might have made the scenario seem more possible.

Thanks for writing,
Matt

mathiasgranger posted a comment on Friday 23rd March 2007 5:10am for Chapter Fourteen - Harry and the Wizengamot

Wow this a quite the story you have written for us here. I like having some back story on the magical world and your explanation seems to fit what I know of Great Britain.

The paladin program universe is rather unique by my estimation and I look forward to seeing how we progress and Harry learns the ropes fo the Wizengamot.

Thanks for writing,
Matt

darthloki posted a comment on Wednesday 21st March 2007 8:44pm for Chapter Fourteen - Harry and the Wizengamot

I think, logically, there is more than one dorm room for each age/house group.
Teachers? Well, we know that classes for Potions are Gryff/Slyth, so presumably the 'two houses per class' rule continues elsewhere. If you had all students in a single year level in two classes - one for Gryffs/Slyths, one for Raves/Puffs - then for grades 1-5, that's ten classes a week minimum, plus sixth year NEWT classes and seventh year NEWT classes.

Will we see more Ollivander/Harry interaction?

Keldore posted a comment on Wednesday 21st March 2007 5:53am for Chapter Fourteen - Harry and the Wizengamot

Another brilliant chapter. The wizangamot detail is very well done, and as always you not only write the story but continue to build the world in which it is set. That is one of my favorite aspects of any fiction.

As for the glaring plot hole in the student/teacher ratio, I believe JKR admitted in an interview that this just wasn't properly thought through. A plausible explaination is simply that Harry's year is smaller than others, since other years aren't given in detail most of the time. So Hogwarts classes are actually much larger than is hinted at in cannon. Many of the classrooms also are not detailed in terms of size, so some could theoretically be large lecture halls with 100 students to a class. I can see subjects like Runes and Arithmancy in particular being set up like that. And finally, the upper years don't take or qualify for certain subjects, so there is some wiggle room there.